Author Topic: Burglar killed by man defending his home.  (Read 8703 times)

  • Offline Edd

  • Posts: 1,504
  • Hero Member
Burglar killed by man defending his home.
on: June 24, 2011, 15:53:32 PM
I'm sure people have seen the news story on the BBC news website. If not, here is a link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13885457

Basically what are peoples thoughts on this? It seems the owner has been arrested for attempted murder but not charged yet. Seeing as David Cameron has said before that home owners should be able to use "reasonable force" to protect themselves and their homes I don't think the man should be charged with attempted murder. Four people broke into his house and he managed to stab one of them. 4v1 seems like sh*tty odds to me, so I'm not surprised he decided to arm himself.

Anyway, be interesting to see people's views on this.


Also here is a follow up story saying that the said burglar was on bail for another burglary when he was killed. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13900285

    • Leons Lost
  • Offline Leon

  • Posts: 3,154
  • Hero Member
  • Bah Humbug!
Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 16:06:49 PM
Killing is pretty serious and it falls down to did he go for the kill? I mean if he was just defending himself/family/home and happened to hit something vital then meh, it was an accident and completely understandable.

The problem boils down to that people should be able to defend themselves and their home from would be attackers, at the moment it seems to be the case of all burglars are laughing becuase if they get hit or injured during a robbery they might not get the swag but they can sue after.
.::. www.leonslost.co.uk .::. Media Server Guide .::.

PC: i5 760 .::.  GA-P55-UD3 .::. 8GB Corsair 'Dominator' DDR3 .::. 1GB EVGA GTX 460 SC .::. Win7 Ultimate  .::. Dell 24" Ultra Sharp
Netbook: HP Mini 311c-1101sa .::. 3GB Ram .::. ION Hack .::. Win7 Ultimate
Server: HP MicroServer .::. 3GB Ram .::. 4x 2TB Storage .::. 512MB nVidia 210 .::. Win7 Ultimate, XBMC 11 (Aeon NOX), Sick Beard & Couch Potato
Phone: SE Xperia Mini Pro .::. MiniCMSandwich Lite (Android ICS Custom) .::. OC @ 1.6Ghz
Tablet: Asus Transformer TF101 w/ Dock .::. EOS JB Nightlies (Android JB Custom) .::. OC @ 1.6Ghz

    • Tekforums.net - It's new and improved!
  • Offline Clock'd 0Ne

  • Clockedtastic
  • Posts: 10,945
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 18:05:09 PM
<hyperbole>

What should happen:

The accused will be found not guilty of charges of murder or manslaughter, as he was defending himself in his own home from intruders. Society rejoices as this sets a precedent and a new era of justice against intruders is ushered in, without all the drama of American gun fatalities. Criminals are loathe to attempt home burglaries for fear of Charles Bronson type retaliation.

What will actually happen:

The accused will be found guilty of murder/manslaughter and receive an excessively harsh sentence to 'warn others' from attempting to take justice into their own hands. Society continues to weep for the piss-poor imbalance of the judicial system. The deceased's relatives sue or receive massive benefits and compensation, then request to be relocated to a swanky London borough under some flawed Housing Association clause.

</hyperbole>

  • Offline Quixoticish

  • Posts: 2,953
  • Hero Member
  • Slayer of ninjas, pirates and vikings.
Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 19:37:55 PM
Sometimes justice is completely fair but we often never hear about it, it's a very small minority of cases where the criminals get away scott free whilst the person defending themselves or their property gets charged etc.

A few years ago someone I went to school with was stabbed to death. The stupid little chav bastard tried to hold someone up at knife point. The person resisted and stabbed him to death. There were no charges brought against the chap who killed him in defence. This kind of thing is actually fairly common but you never hear about it because it's much for fun to get enraged and complain about "political correctness gone mad."

Of course you'll be arrested initially, that goes without saying, you've just killed someone. What remains to be seen is whether they charge the homeowner with anything in this case, or as in my example above decide that he acted fairly and release him without charge.

Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 19:45:01 PM
I think he should get away with it.  The thieves know full well they'll get a slap on the wrist.
How many do you think would reconsider if they knew there was a chance they wouldn't get out alive.

I don't care about the consequences, If someone breaks into my house and threatens my family....they are not leaving in one piece.

  • Offline zpyder

  • Posts: 6,946
  • Hero Member
Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 22:30:44 PM
Problem is, then the thieves decide that with that being the risk, they'll go in armed and prepared to not risk the home owner fighting back, and strike first.

  • Offline neXus

  • Posts: 8,749
  • Hero Member
Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #6 on: June 25, 2011, 00:30:34 AM
Killing someone is bad, no doubt in that. Stabbing is quite serious compared to say if he bashed one over the head or beat him up and he died. There is a difference there. Forcing a knife in someone is another ball game no matter what the situation is.

In saying this I have always had the line of thought that if you are committing a crime for that period of time you loose all but your basic rights. Your breaking the law so you are not wide open and that is your choice and that is how it should be.
You commit a crime you are in knowing removing your rights. If I smack you silly some taking you down (without of course breaking the law) to defend myself there is jack all you can do about it.
At the moment of arrest your rights to trial etc are there until found guilty.

Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 01:11:36 AM
Basically, once they cross your threshold.....they're fair game.

  • Offline Quixoticish

  • Posts: 2,953
  • Hero Member
  • Slayer of ninjas, pirates and vikings.
Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 11:31:24 AM
Basically, once they cross your threshold.....they're fair game.

Pretty much sums it up to be honest. You lose your human rights when you make the choice to break into someone's home.

Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 22:16:23 PM
I think this is great, it makes me feel alot safer when I go to sleep that if I ever need to use the baseball bat that is under my bed I am fully allowed to.

  • Offline Dave

  • Posts: 3,467
  • Hero Member
Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #10 on: June 27, 2011, 00:31:47 AM
The law allowing reasonable force has been in place for some time, the only thing that has really changed are the views of the police and the courts on what constitutes reasonable force.

You'd likely be able to find old cases from the 1920s, falling under the exact same laws, that would perhaps lead to murder charges these days.

Having said that it isn't reasonable to kill any intruder - 4 masked men breaking in is probably enough of a threat for you to lash out with a knife if you were feeling particularly brave but if it later turns out that the stabs were to the back, or you'd repeatedly stabbed someone then it doesn't always look reasonable and your act of defence might well have turned into retaliation.

    • Leons Lost
  • Offline Leon

  • Posts: 3,154
  • Hero Member
  • Bah Humbug!
Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #11 on: June 28, 2011, 16:16:34 PM
Thats the issue, there was the farmer not long ago that got done for murder after shooting someone trying to rob his house... he got done becuase the person was shot in the back so was obivously running away and wasn't in defense.
.::. www.leonslost.co.uk .::. Media Server Guide .::.

PC: i5 760 .::.  GA-P55-UD3 .::. 8GB Corsair 'Dominator' DDR3 .::. 1GB EVGA GTX 460 SC .::. Win7 Ultimate  .::. Dell 24" Ultra Sharp
Netbook: HP Mini 311c-1101sa .::. 3GB Ram .::. ION Hack .::. Win7 Ultimate
Server: HP MicroServer .::. 3GB Ram .::. 4x 2TB Storage .::. 512MB nVidia 210 .::. Win7 Ultimate, XBMC 11 (Aeon NOX), Sick Beard & Couch Potato
Phone: SE Xperia Mini Pro .::. MiniCMSandwich Lite (Android ICS Custom) .::. OC @ 1.6Ghz
Tablet: Asus Transformer TF101 w/ Dock .::. EOS JB Nightlies (Android JB Custom) .::. OC @ 1.6Ghz

  • Offline matt5cott

  • Posts: 3,202
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel fell off.
Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #12 on: June 28, 2011, 16:21:59 PM
I think this is great, it makes me feel alot safer when I go to sleep that if I ever need to use the baseball bat that is under my bed I am fully allowed to.

Grey area as keeping a bat there is intent, if you disarm someone and use their knife against them, or arm yourself in the heat of the moment it's very different from pre-meditating such as stashing a weapon for this purpose.

edit - it's also a pretty poor choice of weapon in confined spaces.
Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 16:28:07 PM by matt5cott #187;

  • Offline matt5cott

  • Posts: 3,202
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel fell off.
Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #13 on: June 28, 2011, 16:22:59 PM
Having said that it isn't reasonable to kill any intruder - 4 masked men breaking in is probably enough of a threat for you to lash out with a knife if you were feeling particularly brave but if it later turns out that the stabs were to the back, or you'd repeatedly stabbed someone then it doesn't always look reasonable and your act of defence might well have turned into retaliation.

Try saying that under the effects of adrenaline with 3 other guys wanting to kick your skull in.

    • Tekforums.net - It's new and improved!
  • Offline Clock'd 0Ne

  • Clockedtastic
  • Posts: 10,945
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
Re: Burglar killed by man defending his home.
Reply #14 on: June 28, 2011, 16:28:33 PM
This is where the law soon turns grim and murky. It's very hard to say what constitutes reasonable force under these conditions and when you are probably in no sound frame of mind for rational judgements or to hammer out an agreement with your would be burglars on whether they are going to want to hurt you or not and if you should fight, whether you should have a weapon and weather you should try and incapacitate them first if you are trapped in your own home. It's not exactly pistols at dawn :lol:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.