Author Topic: Working perpetual motion machine? (Read 4843 times)

We all know about that, although just because its accepted by humans doesnt mean the universe has to meekly follow suit.

It is true that the laws have to be revised every so often. There might be ways of getting free energy with or without going outside the laws of thermodynamics. We certainly still havent proved how the universe was created and that might be the biggest free lunch ever.

However I have seen so many of these inventions touted as perpetual motion machines and they have all been proven to be useless. I think I will stick with the cautious majority for the moment, at least until some real and actual proof comes along.

funkychicken9000 · **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2007, 18:24:12 PM

Re:Working perpetual motion machine?

Reply #8 on: July 04, 2007, 18:24:12 PM

The company asked for sceptical academics etc. to attempt to disprove their idea. As I understand it, they supplied them with various formulas to disprove which were not possible to disprove within the scope of the device. This however still doesnt make it a perpetual motion machine, theres more than one way to skin a cat.

Really its utter bollocks, but as shown its easy to fool a lot of people if you put the word "magnetism" in there somewhere as the vast majority of people dont understand it at all. Then theres the spiritual loonies who insist that it "could well be possible because science is fundamentally rediculous anyway". I wont mention any names.

We get a lot of people writing to our department with details of their perpetual motion machines. All of them are flawed, sometimes it takes seconds to spot why and sometimes a day or two if theyre really nasty. Its usually the PMM2s that take longer to spot as theyre conceptually a little trickier to get your head round.

Dave · **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2007, 18:59:07 PM

Re:Working perpetual motion machine?

Reply #9 on: July 04, 2007, 18:59:07 PM

Quote from: Serious

There might be ways of getting free energy with or without going outside the laws of thermodynamics.

you dont say

:mrgreen:

smacks serious on the head for being a muppet

the point isnt to simply get free energy it is to get energy perpetually - i.e. to have a limitless supply of it thus it would have to involve breaking the a couple of the laws of thermaldynamics making it theoretically impossible - regardless of what a load of loonies on tinterweb keep trying to claim.

redneck · **Reply #10 on:** July 04, 2007, 19:16:59 PM

Re:Working perpetual motion machine?

Reply #10 on: July 04, 2007, 19:16:59 PM

Quote from: Serious

Quote from: Sam
Its not possible because it violates the most basic law of physics.

We all know about that, although just because its accepted by humans doesnt mean the universe has to meekly follow suit.

It is true that the laws have to be revised every so often. There might be ways of getting free energy with or without going outside the laws of thermodynamics. We certainly still havent proved how the universe was created and that might be the biggest free lunch ever.

However I have seen so many of these inventions touted as perpetual motion machines and they have all been proven to be useless. I think I will stick with the cautious majority for the moment, at least until some real and actual proof comes along.

so you can fit a physics degree up your arse as well right?

Serious · **Reply #11 on:** July 04, 2007, 19:37:48 PM

Re:Working perpetual motion machine?

Reply #11 on: July 04, 2007, 19:37:48 PM

Quote from: Dave

Quote from: Serious
There might be ways of getting free energy with or without going outside the laws of thermodynamics.

you dont say

smacks serious on the head for being a muppet

the point isnt to simply get free energy it is to get energy perpetually - i.e. to have a limitless supply of it thus it would have to involve breaking the a couple of the laws of thermaldynamics making it theoretically impossible - regardless of what a load of loonies on tinterweb keep trying to claim.

Sail power comes from the sun and via heating of the air, so in this instance it doesnt count as free according to the definition I was using

A perpetual motion machine has no visible energy input, or at least a lower input than that output.

Quote from: red

so you can fit a physics degree up your arse as well right?

I dont need one, all you have to do is look at the huge and ever increasing number of competing theories. and unlike what FC9K claims they are fundamentally ridiculous, just have a close look at string theory, it isnt even a theory as you cant test it.

Dave · **Reply #12 on:** July 04, 2007, 20:18:42 PM

Re:Working perpetual motion machine?

Reply #12 on: July 04, 2007, 20:18:42 PM

well if you meant free to mean perpetual then your statement was garbage

Quote

There might be ways of getting free energy with or without going outside the laws of thermodynamics.

the idea of perpetual motion, by definition, violates the laws of thermal dynamics

Mongoose · **Reply #13 on:** July 04, 2007, 20:24:43 PM

Re:Working perpetual motion machine?

Reply #13 on: July 04, 2007, 20:24:43 PM

Quote from: Serious

Quote from: red

so you can fit a physics degree up your arse as well right?

I dont need one, all you have to do is look at the huge and ever increasing number of competing theories. and unlike what FC9K claims they are fundamentally ridiculous, just have a close look at string theory, it isnt even a theory as you cant test it.

Sorry I cant let these pass. The basic, macroscopic laws of the universe have been established for a very long time. The "constant revisions" which you and a lot of people who I respect a lot less than you keep bringing up are irrelavent. You will notice if you look closely enough that these "constant revisions" are also constantly smaller and smaller in their effect on the macroscopic world. By your logic, Newtonian mechanics has been proven incorrect, so why do we continue to teach it? Because incorrect though it is, Newtonian mechanics is accurate to more decimals than you can measure as long as you dont go too fast or look at anything too small.

The laws of Thermodynamics have stood every test for a very long time. They forbid perpetual motion machines. It is not possible to construct a machine which produces more energy than it consumes. Further, it is not possible to construct a machine which even produces AS MUCH as it consumes. Look up the Carnot engine.

funkychicken9000 · **Reply #14 on:** July 04, 2007, 20:55:01 PM

Re:Working perpetual motion machine?

Reply #14 on: July 04, 2007, 20:55:01 PM

Quote from: Serious

I dont need one, all you have to do is look at the huge and ever increasing number of competing theories.

Any idea how stupid you sound?

"I dont need to have any understanding of physics, I can quite happily say its all rubbish with no insight whatsoever"

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Author Topic: Working perpetual motion machine? (Read 4843 times)