Assuming Tony Blair retires from being PM before the next election as he has stated.

One of the reasons I like Brown so much is because hes big on putting an end to poverty.

they are all crooks.

Quote from: redthey are all crooks.

Amen to that.

Cheers
Tongy

They have done nothing to earn my trust.

I have especially been put off my Camerons recent efforts to appear green.  Its gotten silly.  Especially when you forgett about the bentley or helicopter involved in trasporting him to that publicity location.

Quote from: DeltaZeroOne of the reasons I like Brown so much is because hes big on putting an end to poverty.

Are you f***ing kidding me?  He taxed the pensions of almost every person in the country on the first day of power?!?!  That is probably the one decision in recent history most likely to cause long term poverty for a huge section of the population in this country!

In case this passed you by, the tax introduced in Gordon Browns first budget is a ballpark Ã,£5bn-a-year removal of funds from pensions which are already severely under funded.  Sod terrorism - if one thing is going to trash this country its the inability of people over 65 to feed or warm themselves.  Therell be uproar and its now pretty much inevitable.  It was a crisis waiting to happen but then Brown raided the pensions system (Robert Maxwell style) which will almost inevitably lead to a catastrophe of poverty for a third of the population of this country.

Lets think...

In 1997 Brown knew there was a chance that he would create a pensions black hole because the freedom of information act recently released the treasury documents where he stated it.  His gamble (which he shouldnt have been taking on this scale) was that the stock market (which most pension schemes invest in) would keep rising at such a rate that it would make up for the increased tax burden.  As hopefully we all know in 2000 and 2001 the stock market dived and the black hole began.  This year thats running at Ã,£81billion defecit and is accelerating (hence a black hole).

Fair enough you may think, lets put the money into guaranteed pensions so its the companies job to make up any shortfalls not the individual - known as final salary pension schemes (sure this will bankrupt smaller companies but the people will at least have money).  Unfortunately Gordon Brown decided that this was a tax concession on savings and removed them - you can no longer join one.

Ok well surely just sticking the money in a high interest savings account would work?  In fact with the backlash from what he did to the pensions starting to surface he started to encourage this in 2004 "Self-Investment Personal Pension Scheme".  In 2005 he cancelled it and removed all tax concessions from savings accounts to force people to spend their savings to boost the economy through a slump.  Seriously he wiped out peoples retirement savings to avoid an economic slump!

But some people have their own pension schemes and are still there and making a bit of money arent they?  Well yes, but Gordon had a great idea to cover the problem of the underperforming funds making companies go bust - thats right if you have stuck through one of the small numbers of pension schemes which are actually investing well and ignoring the fact youre now taxed not only when you earn the money, but when you invest it and again when you receive it Gordon Brown has recently decided that the successful pension funds should be made to pay for the worst ones.  Yup - if you are lucky enough to be making a profit on your pension investment (kind of the point of a pension) then your pension will be required by law to pay for the ones that are making a loss!  So you are being taxed 4 times on your income and then when you do eventually withdraw it you cant actually put it in a savings account without being taxed again?!!?

Oh well, lets just screw it and have the pensioners live on state pensions perhaps.  Unfortunately Gordon Brown increased council tax so the minimum state pension isnt enough to live on and the tax credit form is soo complicated most pensioners are actually unable to fill it in without employing an accountant.  Unfortunately to be elligible to fill in the tax credit form you have to be in a position where you cant really afford to hire an accountant to apply for you!


Theres plenty of reasons to believe in someone and Gordon Brown is very good at micromanaging the economy as a whole but he has created one of the largest poverty cycles this country has ever seen over the long term.  Itll take a couple of years to really be felt but its on its way.



Anyway, in the poll I probably would of said none of the above as this companies government has been ina bit of turmoil for last 5-6 years but went with David Cameron just because he hasnt done anything really dumb yet.  Its early days though, give him time .

Our government representatives really need a kick up the arse.

Quote from: CypherThey have done nothing to earn my trust.

I have especially been put off my Camerons recent efforts to appear green.  Its gotten silly.  Especially when you forgett about the bentley or helicopter involved in trasporting him to that publicity location.

Not that I know crap about this Cameron guy, but if a politician chose to arrive at a gig in a Prius instead of a copter or a limo--thats when Id trust them less about the environment as then theyd obviously be pandering in simple visual tokenism.

Quote from: Tongy

Quote from: redthey are all crooks.

Amen to that.

Cheers
Tongy

Just as well you don;t have to worry then

I agree though, I no longer have any "trust" in our government / political model at all. But not voting is as bad as supporting the exisitng government, who imo are crap, so I will be voting Conservative. Not because I agree with their policies but because I really cannot stand the current government and want a change. If I vote for any other party me vote will effectively be wasted.

Quote from: SteveF

Quote from: DeltaZeroOne of the reasons I like Brown so much is because hes big on putting an end to poverty.

Are you f***ing kidding me?  He taxed the pensions of almost every person in the country on the first day of power?!?!

That would be private pensions so not *everyone* by any means. UK taxes stayed below Conservative levels for the Until at least 2001.

Tory government spending 1996/7 41.2 percent of National GDP Labour 2000/1 38.8% of national GDP.

Payments made into pensions were tax free last time I looked.

Quote from: SeriousThat would be private pensions so not *everyone* by any means.

Well everyone who actually works for a living and did what they were told and invested in their pension schemes...  They got raped for saving for their retirement.  Sure the people who didnt bother to save for their retirement dont suffer but the people who tried to unburden the state ended up paying for the state anyway and have less to retire on.  Thats simply insane...

Anyone who pays into a pension scheme right now must be mad.  Theres simply no point in diverting your wages into it so you pretty much have to play the property market, dump it in lower yield savings accounts or if youre one of the lucky few take share options.