Touch wood Ill be MCSA this time next week - Im not gonna bother with MCSE, the bump in pay doesnt look worth it so Im looking at other stuff.. has anyone been in this boat? Im looking at stuff like CCNA, Citrix, Blackberry, SQL, but really I want whatever gives me the highest paying jobs. tbh I wouldnt mind shuffling away from support work, but then I gotta balance that against what I can do and market demand. Any thoughts?

need experience not just the bits of paper

Got years of exp mate but I wanna start jumping up ladders.

A proven track record of experiance combined the Microsoft syslabus and set path of learning will make a very convincing CV.  Qualifications on their own would never convince me on their own.

Ive been in this trade professionaly just over 2 years now, Ive achieved 3 different MCPs so far getting our Business Small Business Speclialist certified. Some I have done through self learning, some I have done through short courses at Microsoft Training accredited centres.   I could have done more. Im in a posistion where I could go and do this course right now If I wanted to, partially funded by myself.  

http://www.firebrandtraining.co.uk/courses/microsoft/server2008/mcitp_server_administrator.asp

This new MCTIP qualification is the 2008 version of the 2003 MCSA/MCSE qualifications.  Its certainly something I want to achieve, but I dont feel the urgent need to do so.  A lot of it, Ive allready learnt from working with the 2008 prducts, the qualification simply enforces in my mind Microsofts own best practices and shows that to employers and clients.

Qualification is an allways changing game, some certification are changed, replaced, or in Microsoft case left alone and eventually made redundant for future learning.  Its down to you what you would think would be benefitiary to you both as an engineer and your ability to be employed.

Dont do every qualification for the sake of it.  Some times knowing the product your self, learning the ins and outs, the typical problems will be more than you can learn from a qualification on its own.

I probably know SBS 2003 server specific inside and out better than your average engineer, regardless of what Microsoft text they have read.  Ive worked with it 2+ years straight.

I agree, A mix of both is good.
I have a HND and BSC and some other bits and building up the experience but Even as early as next year I may look at some courses to get some certificates and keep them ticking over. A combination of both experience and bits of paper is  good

I cant comment on networking type stuff, but once youre into the software development arena, qualifications are irrelevant if you know your stuff (of course a Bachelors or Masters is nice to get the door open).

I am a bit confused. Ripping people who go to uni and get a degree on the forums to and at samschrshes etc in front of people. Making it know full well that its pointless and stupid to then go do that and now thinking it is a good thing.

Quote from: CypherThis new MCTIP qualification is the 2008 version of the 2003 MCSA/MCSE qualifications.  Its certainly something I want to achieve, but I dont feel the urgent need to do so.  A lot of it, Ive allready learnt from working with the 2008 prducts, the qualification simply enforces in my mind Microsofts own best practices and shows that to employers and clients.

MCTIP looks a good one to do - looking at the syllabus it looks like it covers a lot of stuff that would be more day-to-day relevant than mcsa. In hindsight it looks easier as well? Maybe.. Only reason I went mcsa first and not ITP is msca never expires.

If youre applying for jobs where the big vendor certificates you have to your name are of high importance then chances are its still bottom of the ladder stuff.....

Do a degree or specialise in an area if you want to get a high paying job.

Doing cisco seems to only get you a reasonable salary if you do say the CCIE

Quote from: DaveIf youre applying for jobs where the big vendor certificates you have to your name are of high importance then chances are its still bottom of the ladder stuff.....

Do a degree or specialise in an area if you want to get a high paying job.

Doing cisco seems to only get you a reasonable salary if you do say the CCIE

Totally agree but it is nice to just go out and rather then learning stuff off your own back go do a course which you get something at the end of to add to your CV. Bit more of a focused learning.
I am refreshing my XML, XSLT..... And like as well as .NET but a good focused school like effort to get up to speed again and get something at the end of I have been considering when I have a bit more time in my evenings next year as I settle down more.

Quote from: neXusI am a bit confused. Ripping people who go to uni and get a degree on the forums to and at samschrshes etc in front of people. Making it know full well that its pointless and stupid to then go do that and now thinking it is a good thing.

Are you talking to me ?
Go back to your CSS you silly little man and stop trying to comment on real software development. Hes looking for educated comment, not the insight from a low level lacky. Instead of embarrassing yourself on here I suggest you spend time learning English and how to formulate sentences correctly. Grammar and spelling are important in the developed world - perhaps not so much in New Zealand, I dont know.

Do I have to hand out the handbags again?  

Hey Pete, its nice to get your MCSA, but wasnt nearly as useful as the MCSE and real sys admin experience.  Most things youll learn in either of the test sets can be figured out via a little gui hammering - though being familiar with domain architecture and design ahead of time is invaluable when you move up.  If I had to do it again, Id just read the books and sandbox a server to mess with - certificates dont mean as much as experience.

LOL, just saw your 2nd post.  You arent going to jump up ladders if youre just looking for higher pay - you need to have a deep interest in the work.  I would NEVER hire someone who didnt really have a passion for it (a big thing your interview will try to suss out).

Quote from: PeteI want whatever gives me the highest paying jobs.

http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=3&p_org_id=28&lang=US

as for other qualifications..
If I was employing & I had
someone experienced & MCSE
someone experienced
someone with no experience & MCSE
someone with no experience

I would chose 2,3,4,1 in that order.

Unfortunate for me, I am being forced to do my server+, full HP Certs & next year I get to choose between Cisco or Microsoft rubbish.
I have absolute no need for the piece of paper to say I am capable of doing things I have done for the last 20 years.

Unfortunate for me, our largest vendor is now insisting on it... so I have no choice in it.

Quote from: DenialPHey Pete, its nice to get your MCSA, but wasnt nearly as useful as the MCSE and real sys admin experience.  Most things youll learn in either of the test sets can be figured out via a little gui hammering - though being familiar with domain architecture and design ahead of time is invaluable when you move up.  If I had to do it again, Id just read the books and sandbox a server to mess with - certificates dont mean as much as experience.

LOL, just saw your 2nd post.  You arent going to jump up ladders if youre just looking for higher pay - you need to have a deep interest in the work.  I would NEVER hire someone who didnt really have a passion for it (a big thing your interview will try to suss out).

I dont see what is wrong with ambition. Youd be nuts to stay 2nd/3rd line for your whole life if there was a chance of moving up. fwiw Im doing books & virtual servers here, going through the excercises and reading up on technet etc. so its not like Im not doing a bootcamp or anything like that and its coming out of my own pocket - I guess that shows commitment and interest on top of my yrs of experience. I wouldnt sit and read 1,000 page textbooks if they bored the crap out of me. Ill put the ladder thing another way - you could do a MCITP on Office 2007 or you could do one on DB admin - one has more value than the other, right?

hehe I know a guy who beat 1,000 applicants to land a 50k head of IT job. The MD (who was a bloody genius with Microsoft and Linux infrastructure) raved about how good he was. He showed passion etc in the interview and the psychometric test showed he was a perfect fit. The guy seemed a nice bloke too, dead enthusiastic, geeky (in a good way) and down to earth. He lasted a week. Didnt want to learn ("Oh, we didnt have our servers set up this way in my old job"), he had no ability to stay cool and calm under pressure, didnt want to get his hands dirty... I remember one interview I had where the guy interviewing me said its like telling a girl you love her just to get in her pants - its easy to BS and tell people what they want to hear (I got the job). Gotta show you can do something, not tell.

Quotesomeone experienced & MCSE
someone experienced
someone with no experience & MCSE
someone with no experience

It depends what its for, but for an avg job Id go 2,1,4,3. Cheers for pointing me at the Oracle stuff matey.